Preamble

[MR. SPEAKER in the Chair.]

Oral Answers to Questions — NATIONAL WAR EFFORT.

BUILDING TRADE WORKERS.

Mr. Mander: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the difficulty being experienced owing to the shortage of bricklayers labourers for working in conjunction with bricklayers and that no provision is made for them in the Schedule of Reserved Occupations; and what steps are being taken to remedy this position in view of the fact that building trade workers are being released from military service for urgent work?

The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Bevin): An arrangement has been in force for some time under which building trades workers, including bricklayers labourers, employed on work of great importance, including the first-aid repair of houses damaged by air raids, have been granted deferment of their calling up for military service. Certain other proposals in this connection are at present being considered.

Mr. Mander: Can my right hon. Friend say when he will be in a position to make a statement about the other proposals?

Mr. Bevin: The matter is not entirely in my hands. I have to deal with the Industry.

HOURS OF WORK.

Mr. David Adams: asked the Minister of Labour whether his circular of last July, recommending an immediate reduction of the hours of labour of adult males to 55 or 56 hours per week as soon as the necessary labour force had been acquired, is being fully observed?

Mr. Bevin: The circular to which the hon. Member refers did not recommend an immediate reduction, but contemplated that hours would be reduced progressively

as the necessary labour became available. Progress is being made along these lines, and the position is under continuous review by my Department.

Mr. Adams: asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to a court case in which a magistrate dismissed a charge, brought against a firm, of working boys during longer hours than is permitted by law; whether other such cases have been brought to his notice; and whether he is taking steps to ensure, in the interests of sustained production, that the law relating to the hours of work of juveniles shall be fully enforced?

Mr. Bevin: The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. I am not aware of other similar cases. I am advised by the Factory Department that, generally speaking, the hours of juveniles are now being effectively controlled through the Factory Acts and the Emergency Order procedure for regulating war-time hours.

Mr. Adams: Will the Minister agree that this is a matter of very great importance, so far as juvenile labour is concerned?

Mr. Bevin: I quite agree.

RAILWAY WORKERS (WAGES AND ALLOWANCES).

Sir William Davison: asked the Minister of Labour what is the total increase in wages and war-time allowances granted to railway workers since the beginning of the war; whether such increases are comparable to those granted in other industries; and whether the Government have now given further consideration to the question of fixing a standard wage which can be paid in all industries concerned with the national war effort?

Mr. Bevin: Apart from certain increases in the wage rates of lower-paid workers which, though operative from the end of October, 1939, were awarded in respect of claims made before the outbreak of war, the wage increases granted to railway workers since the outbreak of war amount to 7s. per week, in the case of conciliation grades, 8s. in the case of shopmen and £18 per annum in the case of salaried staff. There have been corresponding increases for women and


juveniles. In addition the lower-paid workers received, shortly after the outbreak of war, increases varying from 6d. to 5s. per week as the result of an increase in the weekly minimum rates of men and women in the conciliation grades. The average increase in rates of wages varies widely in different industries. In all the industries combined, excluding agriculture, it is estimated that the average is about 14 to 15 per cent. As regards the last part of the Question, I have nothing to add to the statement made in the course of my speech in the House on 21st January.

Sir W. Davison: Do not the Government consider it desirable that increases of wages, which are mainly due to the increase in the cost of living, should be generally comparable in all industries, and that it is undesirable that smaller industries which are not as highly organised as the railways and other big industries should have the same advantages as those which are highly organised?

Mr. Bevin: The Government are averse to a political settlement of wages. We believe that if it were introduced, it would have the same effect as it did in the end of the last war, when it led to rapid and disastrous inflation. The second point made by my hon. Friend is surely unjustified, because powerful unions like those of the railwaymen and engineers have refrained from using their power, and have referred their cases to arbitration. Surely it is not suggested that arbitration courts would be influenced in their decision as to whether a trade was or was not well organised. They have to decide cases on the facts, and without interference

FOOD DISTRIBUTIVE TRADES (EMPLOYÉS).

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Minister of Labour whether, in considering manpower problems in future, he will bear in mind the necessity of the proper staffing of shops and warehouses by skilled and experienced persons handling foodstuffs, especially in view of the increasing difficulties encountered by those employed in those establishments?

Mr. Bevin: In connection with the revision of the Schedule of Reserved Occupations,

which is now approaching completion, I have arranged, in consultation with my right hon. and Noble Friend the Minister of Food, to continue the reservation of man-power for the food distributive trades to the greatest extent possible, in the light of the general man-power position.

Mr. Davies: Is the right hen. Gentleman aware that very important branches of the distribution of food are already completely denuded of experienced men shop assistants? Will he keep that fact in mind?

Mr. Bevin: Yes, Sir, I will, and I will take the opportunity of saying to my hon. Friend that people in the distributive and other trades must recognise that the training of other people must go on, and that we must not leave their problem until the actual call-up takes place, because the man-power problem is getting very difficult.

Mr. Davies: Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in other occupations which are not more important than that of food distribution, a. less number is called up, proportionately, than in food distribution?

INJURED WORKERS (REHABILITATION).

Mr. Martin: asked the Minister of Labour whether he has given attention to the whole problem of rehabilitation of men injured in industry or by enemy action or discharged as unfit from the services; what policy the Government intends to pursue in respect to the matter; and what progress has already been made?

Mr. Bevin: This subject is being considered as a whole. No decision has yet been reached.

Oral Answers to Questions — CIVIL DEFENCE.

FIRE WATCHERS.

Mr. Hamilton Kerr: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that able-bodied unemployed on the register are refusing offers of well-paid posts for fire watching; and what action he is taking in the matter?

Mr. Bevin: I am not aware of any such cases. If my hon. Friend will give me particulars, I will make inquiry.

Mr. Kerr: asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that a certain number of fire watchers are receiving as much as £8 to £10 a week; and whether he will enforce a standard rate of pay equal to that received by the air-raid precautions and Auxiliary Fire Service?

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison): My attention has been drawn to some cases where fire watchers have been engaged at high rates of wages, but I should prefer to see the effect of the recent Orders concerning fire prevention before considering whether any further action could with advantage be taken.

Mr. Kerr: Does not my right hon. Friend think it is a grave scandal that these men should receive more than twice the wages of A.F.S. and A.R.P. men, and does he not think it would be advisable to set up a special department to enrol these men at A.F.S. rates of pay?

Mr. Morrison: I have considerable sympathy with the point of view of my hon. Friend, and he may be sure that I will keep the point in mind in consultation with the Departments concerned.

Sir W. Davison: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in my experience in the City of London men who were engaged at wages of £3 or £4 a week have given notice, with the result that buildings are left unprotected unless these high wages are paid?

Mr. Vernon Bartlett: asked the Home Secretary whether, in order to assure that the burden is shared by all members of the community, he will at once use compulsory powers to enlist an adequate supply of fire watchers in areas where there is an insufficient number of volunteers?

Mr. Morrison: Two separate Orders concerning lire-prevention duties have been made. The Business Premises Order imposes compulsory obligations on the occupiers of business premises to make adequate fire-prevention arrangements for their premises. It also imposes an obligation which can be enforced on all male British subjects of the prescribed age who work at the premises to take turns of duty there, unless satisfactory voluntary or other suitable arrangements have been made. The Compulsory Enrolment Order

will be put into operation where under Regulation 27B a local authority is directed to make fire-prevention arrangements in its area, elsewhere than at business premises, and the number of volunteers for that purpose is insufficient.

DAMAGED PROPERTY (REPAIRS).

Sir Patrick Hannon: asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the request of the Lord Mayor of Birmingham to receive a deputation from the air-raid precautions committee of the Birmingham City Council to submit an appeal for increased labour supply for reparation work of devastated property and restoration of public utility services; whether a reply has been sent to the Lord Mayor; and whether he will act promptly to relieve the serious situation in Birmingham, due to the delay in reparation of damaged property?

Mr. Bevin: Yes, Sir, I am arranging for the deputation to be received.

Sir P. Hannon: Thank you very much.

Mr. W. H. Green: asked the Minister of Health (1) whether he has considered representations from the Metropolitan borough of Deptford calling attention to the difficulty experienced in getting local contractors to give prior attention to orders placed with them for urgent first-aid repairs to damaged property; and whether he will consider exercising powers to ensure that such repairs are at least dealt with in the order in which they are received and not given second place to the execution of private orders for which a larger margin of profit may be possible;
(2), whether he has considered a communication from the council of the Metropolitan borough of Deptford calling attention to the lack of skilled labour of the type necessary to carry out work of first-aid repairs to damaged house property, which shortage is aggravated by such men being called up for service; and whether he proposes to take any action on these representations;
(3), whether he has considered representations from the Metropolitan borough of Deptford pointing out the difficulties caused by calling up for service members of the council staff who have trained technical experience needed to supervise necessary first-aid repairs to damaged property; and, as it is difficult to replace


such men, whether he will consider taking the necessary steps to remove this difficulty?

The Minister of Health (Mr. Ernest Brown): I have received a letter from the Deptford Borough Council. Prior to its receipt, arrangements had been made for one of my regional architects to pay a special visit to the borough. He reports that substantial progress has been made with first-aid repairs, but I am arranging for my officers to confer urgently with representatives of the council to see what further steps can be taken. The points referred to by my hon. Friend will be discussed at this conference and with the other Departments concerned.

Mr. Green: Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the difficulty which local authorities are experiencing in regard to private contractors giving preference to private work on which there is a substantial increase in profit as against council work?

Mr. Brown: That is one of the points which will come up at the conference. It is because of my understanding of the urgency of the matter that I have called the conference.

Mr. J. J. Davidson: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many Scottish buildings firms are idle, while London firms are working in Scotland? Why not bring the London firms back to their own area?

Sir P. Hannon: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works and Buildings whether the function of providing supplementary labour for the reparation of damaged private property and the restoration of public utility services has been transferred from the Ministry of Labour to his Department; and whether he is taking active steps to meet the request submitted by the Lord Mayor of Birmingham for additional workpeople to deal with the grave situation which now confronts thousands of Birmingham citizens?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works and Buildings (Mr. Hicks): There has been no transfer of the Ministry of Labour's responsibilities in this matter: but my Noble Friend has endeavoured

to afford, in addition, such assistance as he can.

Sir P. Hannon: Is a survey being made by the Ministry of the devastation which has taken place, in view of the desolate state of affairs which prevails in Coventry and Birmingham, or are active steps being taken to deal with the situation?

Mr. Hicks: I can answer that, although that does not arise out of this Question, my Noble Friend has made arrangements for as extensive a survey as is possible to be made in the towns that have been subject to the."Blitz"

Sir P. Hannon: Thank you.

Mr. Kenneth Lindsay: May I ask who has the responsibility?

EVACUATION.

Mr. Thurtle: asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that conditions under which elderly evacuees are living at Marda House, Oswestry, are unsatisfactory, and that, in particular, the treatment of those evacuees who need medical treatment leaves a great deal to be desired; and, if he is unable to arrange for these evacuees to receive better treatment at this institution, whether he will endeavour to make arrangements for their transfer to more comfortable quarters elsewhere?

Mr. E. Brown: Marda House, Oswestry, is an institution and an emergency hospital under the control of the Shropshire County Council. I am not aware that the conditions are unsatisfactory, but I am arranging for an investigation to be made, with particular reference to the circumstances of those persons who were taken to this hospital from the London shelters. I will communicate with my hon. Friend as soon as I have a report.

PERSONAL INJURIES (CIVILIANS) SCHEME.

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Minister of Pensions the number of claims received by his Department for pensions and allowances from civilians injured by enemy action and the number of persons covered by such claims?

The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley): Up to 1st February, 1941, 42,319 claims for injury allowances had been recorded from Civil Defence volunteers and other civilians. By the same


date 5,483 claims for pensions had been received, the bulk of which were preferred by widows. The number of dependants, beside the actual claimants covered by these figures, cannot be stated.

Mr. Davies: Can the right hon. Gentleman state how many of those claims have been rejected?

Sir W. Womersley: No, Sir, because many of them are still under consideration, but the vast majority have been accepted and payments have been made.

FIRST-AID PERSONNEL (TRAINING).

Mr. David Adams: asked the Home Secretary whether he intends to issue a new circular on the training of first-aid personnel, in view of the experience gained in raids upon this country and, as in many unraided parts of the country first-aid exercises are still being carried out on a pre-war basis, thus failing to take advantage of practical experience?

Mr. H. Morrison: Circulars on the lessons learned from experience in air raids are sent out from time to time, and those already issued have included a number of points affecting the training of first-aid personnel. Every endeavour is made to keep training up to date and in accordance with the lessons learned from experience. If my hon. Friend has any particular area in mind in which training is considered to be unsatisfactory, perhaps he would let me know.

Mr. Adams: I will send my right hon. Friend particulars.

STIRRUP PUMPS.

Mr. Bartlett: asked the Home Secretary whether, in order to prevent profiteering, he will take over all available supplies of stirrup pumps for distribution at a standard price?

Mr. H. Morrison: Under an Order made by the Board of Trade stirrup pumps are already price-regulated goods under the Prices of Goods Act. I am informed that the number available for sale outside the Government scheme is inconsiderable, and in the circumstances I do not think that there would be sufficient justification for the course proposed by my hon. Friend.

Mr. Bartlett: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in one town at least that I know of over 50 people have put down

their names at the local town hall for stirrup pumps at 21s., while just round the corner a shop is selling them at 30s., and ought not that to be stopped?

Mr. Morrison: That may be so, but it would be a negligible contribution to the problem, and would present administrative and financial problems out of proportion to the result that would be obtained.

Mr. Lipson: Can my right hon. Friend say what is the standard price?

Mr. Morrison: Not without notice.

NEWSPAPERS (WARNINGS).

Mr. Mander: asked the Home Secretary what warnings on what dates, and to what newspapers, have been officially issued under Defence Regulation 2C?

Mr. H. Morrison: No warnings have been issued under the provisions of Defence Regulation 2C.

Mr. Mander: Then all the warnings issued up to date have been unofficial ones?

Mr. Morrison: I have answered the Question on the Paper.

INTERNEES.

Mr. Sorensen: asked the Home Secretary why no representative of any refugee organisation has been appointed to the tribunal dealing with applications from Italians for release from internment; whether he will appoint a representative similar to the one acting on the tribunal for German and Austrian applications; and whether he is aware that anti-Fascist Italians are still interned although some prominent Italian Fascists in London are free?

Mr. H. Morrison: I think that my hon. Friend is under a misapprehension. My object in appointing members of the various Advisory Committees is to select persons of balanced judgment and experience in affairs, and not to appoint persons to represent special interests. As regards the last part of the Question, it is open to any Italian to apply for release if he comes within one of the categories of eligibility set out in the White Paper. I have no information to suggest that prominent Italian Fascists in London are free, but I should be glad to consider any information in the possession of my hon. Friend.

Mr. Wedgwood: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the Divisional Controller, Ministry of Labour wrote, on 26th October, confirming that the application of Jacob Wolloch had already been sent to the North Western Area Board; and what is the reason for this five months delay in getting this key man back to his job?

Mr. Morrison: As I informed my right hon. Friend on nth February, in reply to a previous Question about Mr. Jacob Wolloch, I am looking into the case and will communicate with him as soon as possible. The suggestion that the certificate required for the purpose of category 6 of the White Paper was furnished to the Home Office in October last is mistaken.

Mr. Wedgwood: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the request came from the Divisional Controller of the Ministry of Labour?

Mr. Morrison: No, Sir; the Home Office, as my right hon. Friend will appreciate, can take into consideration such requests only if they come from a State Department, and my right hon. Friend, I think, is wrong in stating that, according to his information, the original move came from the local Divisional Controller of the Ministry of Labour. But it would have to go higher up before it reached the Home Office.

DETENTIONS.

Miss Ward: asked the Home Secretary whether notes of the questions asked and the answers given during interrogations by the Advisory Committees of persons detained under Regulation 18B are supplied on request to the interested parties?

Mr. H. Morrison: A shorthand note of the proceedings before the Committee is taken for purposes of record, and for the assistance of the Committee, if required, in considering their report. It is not supplied to the person detained or his advisers.

Miss Ward: Would it not be possible for the questions and answers to be sent to the appellant?

Mr. Morrison: No, Sir; I think it would lead to delay in the functioning of this organisation, which I am anxious should move with all possible speed.

Sir W. Davison: Is the decision of the Advisory Committee communicated to the applicant? I understand that the Committee's decision is not communicated.

Mr. Morrison: No, Sir, it is not communicated; and nobody has any right to say what the decision is. The decision is communicated to the Home Secretary, and the responsibility is the Home Secretary's.

Miss Rathbone: Would the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the Home Secretary's decision is communicated, because we get many complaints that it is not communicated to the appellant?

Mr. Morrison: I doubt whether there are many cases of that kind. Great improvements have been made in procedure; and between the Home Secretary's decision and the actual release there is very little delay. It is a little unfair to make suggestions that there is generally delay of weeks and weeks between the Home Secretary's decision and the release.

Miss Ward: asked the Home Secretary in how many cases dealt with by the Advisory Committees under Regulation 18B adjournments were recommended for further inquiries to be made; how many adjourned cases remain to be finally decided; and in how many of these cases was the decision of the Advisory Committee reversed?

Mr. Morrison: Information as to the number of cases in which the decisions given by me on cases which have been investigated by the Advisory Committees do not accord with the committees recommendations is given in the monthly report presented to Parliament. In many of these cases, points arise during the hearing of the objector's representations on which a committee may think it right to make further inquiries, and these inquiries may or may not lead to an adjourned hearing; but it would be a laborious business to examine all the records of the procedure of the committees, and I do not understand what purpose would be served by this expenditure of time and labour.

Miss Ward: Can my right hon. Friend say how many adjourned cases are now under consideration?

Mr. Morrison: Not without notice. I would point out that our desire to get these matters dealt with expeditiously will be hampered by insistence on statistics which are not really material.

61. Mr. Thurtle: asked the Home Secretary the reasons for the detention of John Mason under Defence Regulation 18B?

Mr. Morrison: I decided that this man's detention must be maintained because I was satisfied that he was involved in attempts to slow down war production. As my hon. Friend knows, if the Home Secretary has reasonable cause to believe that a person has been recently concerned in acts prejudicial to the public safety or the defence of the realm, or in the preparation or instigation of such acts, the Regulation places on him the responsibility for the detention of such person, and it would not be right for me in such cases to give particulars of the information in my possession, which must frequently be of a confidential character.

Mr. Thurtle: Has this man's trade union made representations to my right hon. Friend on the subject; and, if so, with what result?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir; an approach was made to the Home Office by the executive council of the Amalgamated Engineering Union, and they were seen by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State. Subsequently, the following statement appeared in the "Amalgamated Engineering Union Journal" of November, 1940:
Following questions and answers from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Home Office the executive council were satisfied that the member's internment had not arisen out of his trade union activities, but was solely connected with his activities on behalf of a political party of which it was alleged he was a member. In view of the evidence available after examination of the answers given to the Executive Council by the Parliamentary Secretary, it was deemed inadvisable to pursue the question of the member's release from detention

Mr. T. Smith: Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that this man has had every facility for his case being examined by the tribunal?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir, and I personally examined all the relevant papers before I decided that it was right that detention should be continued.

Mr. Gallacher: Is it not the fact that there is no specific action that can be charged against this shop steward, and that the actual cause of his arrest was his activity as a member of the Communist party?

Mr. Morrison: I have already stated that I have maintained the detention because I was satisfied that he was involved in attempts to slow down war production. I cannot add to that.

Mr. Granville: (for Mr. Loftus)asked the Home Secretary whether in the case of a serving sailor, soldier or airman interned under Regulation 18Bthe commanding officer of his unit is consulted before he is arrested or invited to appear and give evidence before or furnish the Advisory Committee with his opinion?

Mr. Morrison: Before any person is detained under Regulation 18B—whether he is or is not a member of His Majesty's Forces—the Home Secretary must be satisfied that the conditions laid down in the Regulation are fulfilled, and for this purpose he must have adequate information on all relevant matters; but it would not be right for me to fetter my discretion by making an announcement that in certain classes of cases information will always be obtained from certain specified sources. The responsibility rests on me to obtain such information as is necessary and proper for the purpose of the particular case. Similarly, when objections are made to the Advisory Committee discretion must be left to the committee to decide what evidence they will hear. All I can say is that in all these cases account is taken not only of adverse information but of any information that may be favourable to the suspect.

Mr. Granville: Is not a member of His Majesty's Forces subject to court-martial or military trial?

Mr. Morrison: In this matter, if he is dealt with under Regulation 18B, he is dealt with subject to my jurisdiction.

FASCISTS.

Mr. Wedgwood: asked the Home Secretary whether, with reference to Fascists in key positions in the various Ministries, he has, amongst the necessary steps to guard against such risks, provided each Department of State with the


list of names and addresses of Fascists; and how many of those on the 1939 list are now employed by his Department or in the Metropolitan Police?

Mr. H. Morrison: It would not be in the public interest to disclose the nature of the steps taken to guard against the risk which my right hon. Friend has in mind. I can, however, assure him that there is no one employed either at the Home Office or at New Scotland Yard who is known to have been actively engaged in furthering the objects of the British Union.

Mr. Wedgwood: Are the heads of the other Departments of State supplied with this list which the right hon. Gentleman has at the Home Office, or can they have it if they apply for it?

Mr. Morrison: I can assure my right hon. Friend that sufficient information is always available to the Departments concerned.

Mr. Thurtle: Does my right hon. Friend's answer also cover the Communist party?

Mr. Morrison: The House may take it that my answer covers everybody who may be a danger to the security of the State. We are quite impartial; we keep an eye on all people.

VAGRANCY.

40. Mr. Salt: (for Captain Strickland)asked the Home Secretary whether he is satisfied that the present system of dealing with vagrancy does not constitute a danger to public security; and whether he will consider the issue of regulations compelling able-bodied vagrants to be registered for employment and those not so employed or unfit for employment to remain in public institutions?

Mr. H. Morrison: I have no reason to think that existing powers are inadequate to deal with any danger to public security from vagrants. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour to a Question by the hon. Member for Tamworth (Sir J. Mellor) on 18th February.

Oral Answers to Questions — MILITARY SERVICE.

CIVIL SERVANTS.

Mr. Salt: asked the Minister of Labour how many men in Government Departments have been reserved below the ages in industry employed in comparable occupations; and whether it is the intention of the Minister, in reviewing the Schedule of Reserved Occupations, to apply to Civil servants the same principle as is applied to industry?

Mr. Bevin: In the light of the changes now being made, the whole matter is being reviewed by the Treasury, in conjunction with my Department.

Mr. Salt: Is my right hon. Friend aware of the widespread feeling that there is unfair discrimination given to municipal and Civil servants, many of whom could be adequately replaced by women?

Mr. Bevin: I do not think there is anything unfair between the treatment of Civil servants and what is meted out to similar occupations in industry. In view of the fact that the whole of the reserved-occupation procedure is being reviewed for industry, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I thought that it was essential to have an investigation into the Civil Service, so that the changes outside and in should run concurrently.

BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION.

Mr. Salt: asked the Minister of Labour the age of reservation for British Broad casting Company employés; and how many men below that ago have been given exemption?

Mr. Bevin: Members of the administrative and executive staff of the British Broadcasting Corporation are reserved at and above the age of 30. The remainder of the staff are not reserved unless they are employed in some skilled occupation shown separately in the Schedule of Reserved Occupations. Temporary deferment has been granted to 95 members of the staff under the age of 30, and applications for deferment in respect of a further 40 are at present under consideration.

Mr. Salt: Can my right hon. Friend state whether men registered for military service are taken by the B.B.C. and then given exemption?

Mr. Bevin: I am not aware of that.

Oral Answers to Questions — SCHOOL CANTEENS (STATE ASSISTANCE).

Mr. Lipson: asked the President of the Board of Education why the Government grant to local education authorities for buildings and equipment for school canteens is only 50 per cent., whereas the Government bears the whole expense, under certain conditions of buildings and equipment of communal feeding centres set up by local authorities; and whether he will take steps to increase the grant for school canteens to 100 per cent.?

The President of the Board of Education (Mr. Ramsbotham): The rate of grant to local education authorities on their expenditure on the provision of meals, including buildings and equipment, was substantially increased last July—the increase being in no case less than 20 per cent.—and now ranges from 50 to 92 per cent. with an average rate of 70 per cent. I see no reason to increase this grant further. The provision of meals for school children is a normal peace-time service, part of the capital and running cost of which has always been met from the rates on the ground that it forms part of the education provision of the area. It is expected that the war-time developments of this service will be permanent. On the other hand, communal feeding is an emergency war-time measure, to which the rates could not be expected to contribute.

Mr. Lipson: Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in reception areas, there has been a great increase in the need for feeding school children, and that, therefore, additional expense in buildings and equipment is required; and will he not treat this expense exactly on the same lines as that for communal feeding centres by local authorities?

Mr. Ramsbotham: This must remain an educational service.

Mr. Lipson: Is it not a fact that education authorities are treated very badly in the matter of grants?

Oral Answers to Questions — NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE.

Mr. Ellis Smith: asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the extreme urgency of the need to increase the benefits payable under the National Health Insurance, in particular, sickness, maternity and disablement benefits; by what

amounts it is intended to increase the benefits; and whether he can make a statement on the matter, in view of the urgency?

Mr. E. Brown: I am not yet in a position to add to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member on 13th February, in answer to his previous Question on this subject.

Mr. Smith: I am aware that the right hon. Gentleman and his Ministry are very sympathetic towards this matter. If I put a similar Question on the Paper later, will the right hon. Gentleman be able to deal with it, in view of its extreme urgency?

Mr. Brown: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put it down.

Mr. Rhys Davies: Will the right hon. Gentleman give serious consideration to the setting-up of a committee of inquiry into National Health Insurance in general, as it is many years since this was done?

Mr. Parker: asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that pensions given to orphans benefiting under the National Health Insurance Orphans Pensions Act cease at 31st July following their sixteenth birthday; that this prevents many good boys and girls continuing their education beyond the school-certificate standard; and whether he can take steps to remove this injustice?

Mr. Brown: The 31st July is the usual date of the end of the school year in secondary schools. Accordingly, the continuance of an orphan's pension until that date normally avoids hardship, and I can give no undertaking to introduce the legislation which would be necessary to vary the date.

Mr. Parker: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of the progressive local authorities maintain orphans in their charge until the end of their educational life, and cannot the same advantages be given to orphans living with relatives?

Mr. Brown: I have made a note of that point.

Oral Answers to Questions — LOCAL AUTHORITIES (FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE).

Mr. Denville: asked the Minister of Health whether, in the case of State assist-


ance to local authorities to enable them to carry on in war-time, such assistance will be by way of gift or of loan, and, if the latter, at what rate of interest; and whether he can give details as to what has been done in other directions or what it is proposed to do?

Mr. E. Brown: I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 5th September last, in which it was indicated that assistance to local authorities needing it would take the form of advances free of interest, the Government retaining the right to call for repayment after the war in the light of the financial circumstances then obtaining, both in the areas interested and in the country generally. Directions have also been issued, under powers conferred by Defence Regulation, to reduce the amount payable under county council precepts by local authorities to which advances are being made.

Mr. Denville: I take it that the right hon. Gentleman will review the situation?

Mr. Brown: Yes, Sir.

Mr. Sorensen: asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the growing financial difficulties of local authorities arising from war-time circumstances and the anomalies as between one authority and another that have given rise to resentment and inequitable financial burden, in certain areas, he proposes to consider the whole problem with a view to easing these burdens and securing a greater measure of financial equality among local authorities?

Mr. Brown: I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given by my predecessor on 21st January to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Lieut.-Colonel Macnamara).

Mr. Sorensen: Does the right hon. Gentleman not hold out any hope for special consideration of this urgent problem? Is he not aware that many local authorities are disturbed about the position?

Mr. Brown: The hon. Member will understand that the House and the country would be against the idea of putting this matter on a local basis. It should be on a community basis.

Sir Adam Maitland: In view of the number of Questions dealing with this and similar matters which have been put on the Order Paper, would the Minister consider holding a comprehensive inquiry into the whole subject?

Mr. Brown: I do not think there is any need for that.

Sir A. Maitland: Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the subject is of such importance and is so widespread that there ought to be an immediate inquiry?

Mr. Brown: That view is not shared by the Government. Consultation about this question has been proceeding between the responsible parties concerned.

Oral Answers to Questions — ALIEN DOCTORS.

Sir Henry Morris-Jones: asked the Minister of Health, in connection with the recent Regulation permitting the temporary registration of alien doctors in this country for the purpose of medical work in the war effort, how many alien doctors have so far been granted this recognition, stating the number in the category of nationality, and how many are in the Services; and whether the present machinery for facilitating this registration is working satisfactorily in view of the present urgent demand for trained medical personnel?

Mr. E. Brown: I am informed that 18 alien doctors, all of whom are citizens of the U.S.A., have so far been registered under an Order of September, 1940, which applies only to such citizens and to Canadians. I am not aware that any of of this group of doctors are in the Fighting Services. Under a more comprehensive Order of January, 1941, the cases of some hundreds of alien doctors, who are of Allied nationality or refugees from enemy countries, are being investigated as speedily as possible, but none have yet been registered.

Sir H. Morris-Jones: Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there are many Allied doctors, especially Dutch and Czecho-Slovakian doctors, who are men of unquestionable integrity and qualification, who are most desirous of serving this country and who are at the present time doing nothing at all? Can he accelerate the process?

Mr. Brown: I will do my best.

Mr. Granville: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a serious shortage of doctors in the rural districts of this country?

Mr. Brown: If the hon. Gentleman knows of any particular cases, perhaps he will bring them to my notice.

Mr. Sorensen: asked the Minister of Health why Spanish refugee doctors are not given the same opportunity as other refugee doctors in being permitted temporarily to practise in this country; and whether he will take steps to remedy this?

Mr. Brown: The object of the Order is to facilitate the enrolment of suitable foreign doctors in such services as the armed forces of their own countries present in the United Kingdom and the hospital service of this country. So far as I am aware, these services would not benefit to any appreciable extent by addition to the list of territories specified in the Order, but if my hon. Friend will supply me with any information in his possession as to the number of doctors concerned I shall be pleased to consider it.

Mr. Sorensen: Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that these Spanish refugee doctors were among the first victims of Nazi and Fascist aggression, and that they therefore deserve special consideration?

Mr. Brown: Perhaps the hon. Member will do as I have asked him.

Miss Rathbone: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the majority of refugee Spanish doctors in this country are not neutrals but that they are passionately anti-Nazi and anti-Fascist, and, secondly, that the services of one of the greatest experts in the country on blood transfusion is being wasted? Can they not be utilised?

Mr. Brown: Perhaps the hon. Lady will let me know about it. I know of some whose services are being used in certain ways.

Oral Answers to Questions — BATHS AND WASHHOUSES. LONDON (SUNDAY OPENING).

Mr. Graham White: asked the Minister of Health whether London boroughs are arranging for the public baths and

washhouses to be open on Sundays for the use of those people who, owing to war conditions, are unable to avail themselves of these facilities on any other day?

Mr. E. Brown: I understand that the practice varies in different boroughs, but I am making inquiries as to the facts and will communicate with my hon. Friend.

Oral Answers to Questions — ARMED FORCES (PENSIONS AND GRANTS).

Mr. Dobbie: asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is yet in a position to make a decision in the case of Mrs. France, of 23, Wharncliffe Street, Rother- ham, who made application to the Military Service Allowance Committee on 21st June and then appealed against the decision in November of last year, and on which the hon. Member for Rother- ham communicated with the Minister on 23rd November, 1940, and again on 14th January, 1941?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions (Mr. Paling): As the hon. Member is aware, the case is one of a difficult type; and its rejection was in accordance with the principles adopted by the Committee. Points arising out of the appeal have been investigated, and it has now been decided to issue a grant at the rate of 10s. a week.

Miss Ward: asked the Minister of Pensions what action parents of sons killed by enemy action, who were depend ants, should take to maintain a standard reasonably comparable to that maintained for them by the son, and where the amount contributed by the son was in excess of the maximum grant payable under the Royal Warrant?

Sir W. Womersley: I would remind the hon. Lady that a parent's pension is in the nature of a life annuity, and the extent of the State's liability for that pension, which alone it is my duty to determine, could not equitably be based on the amount which the son's particular circumstances at the time of enlistment may have enabled him to contribute to their support.

Miss Ward: Would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to give a direct answer to the Question? What action do parents have to take under present circumstances?

Sir W. Womersley: I have given a direct answer to the hon. Lady's Question.

Mr. Leslie: asked the Minister of Pensions under what conditions a seaman who has been invalided out of the service, after serving since the outbreak of war in a merchant vessel commandeered by the Navy, can qualify for a pension?

Sir W. Womersley: The answer must depend on the class of seaman that the hon. Member has in view. If he will be good enough to give me particulars of the case with which he is concerned, including the nature of the man's service, I shall be glad to give him the information desired.

Mr. Leslie: Would an ordinary stoker who had been invalided out be entitled to a pension?

Sir W. Womersley: I do not like to deal with hypothetical cases in my Department. If the hon. Member can give me a specific case, I shall be glad to give it the most sympathetic consideration.

Oral Answers to Questions — INDIAN ARMY (RECRUITS).

Major-General Sir Alfred Knox: asked the Secretary of State for India the number of recruits to the Indian Army who have volunteered from each province since the beginning of the war?

The Secretary of State for India (Mr. Amery): I have now received from the Government of India the figures up to the end of September, 1940, which have been published in India, and will, with my hon. and gallant Friend's permission, circulate them. Since that date it has been decided not to publish any further figures.

Sir A. Knox: Do not the figures show the outstanding loyalty and patriotism of the population of the Punjab?

Mr. Amery: They do show the remarkable willingness of the population of the Punjab to come forward and serve.

Mr. Thorne: Is not that a good reason why you should give them self-government?

Mr. Amery: The Punjab has self-government.

Following are the figures:


North-West Frontier Province
5,506


Punjab 
48,036


United Provinces
12,227


Delhi 
406


Madras
9,898


Bombay 
7,656


Bihar 
710


Central Provinces and Berar 
899


Bengal 
113


Sind 
137


Coorg 
42


Assam 
1


Baluchistan
8

Oral Answers to Questions — POLICE INSPECTOR, YORK (WATCH COMMITTEE'S DECISION).

Mr. Dobbie: asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to the circumstances in regard to the retirement of an inspector in the York police force at the request of the Watch Committee, the reason being that a charge of theft was preferred against him and admitted, but no prosecution has taken place, and the man retains his pension; and will he cause an inquiry to be made into the case, and report his findings to the House?

Mr. H. Morrison: I have made inquiries into this case and am informed that the inspector was dealt with by the Watch Committee, as disciplinary authority for the force, and was required to resign, as an alternative to dismissal. The result of this decision was that he retained his right to a pension on retirement. The administration of discipline in a city or borough police force is vested by law in the Watch Committee, as police authority, and the decision in a disciplinary case rests with them. The decision to deal with this case as the Committee did was no doubt due to their desire to deal mercifully with an officer who had a record of 32 years' hitherto unblemished service, during which he had been four times commended for gallantry and had received the Royal Humane Society's medal. While I appreciate this feeling, it is, in my view, a principle of public importance that police officers guilty of criminal offences should be brought to trial before a court which, in making its adjudication, will, of course, take account of all the relevant considerations, including those which can be urged in favour of a merciful view.

Mr. Dobbie: Would the Minister inform the House whether the responsibility for prosecution rests with the Watch Committee or with the chief constable?

Mr. Morrison: I think, with the Watch Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions — POST-WAR RECONSTRUCTION.

Mr. White: asked the Prime Minister whether the spheres of action, the scope and limits of responsibility as between the Departments of the Minister without Portfolio and the Minister of Works and Buildings have now been determined; and whether such transfers of functions from the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Transport and the Board of Trade as may be necessary to enable the two Ministers primarily responsible to formulate a sound policy of reconstruction have: now been made or are in process of being carried out?

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): The Minister without Portfolio is the War Cabinet Minister in general charge of the study of all reconstruction problems. Within the framework of that general study, the Minister of Works and Buildings has a special responsibility for seeing that all practicable preparations are made for the physical reconstruction of town and country after the war. The preparatory work over which my right hon. Friends have assumed direction affects the work of many existing Departments, and an appropriate organisation has been established to ensure that they receive full assistance from these Departments in their study of reconstruction problems. As the functions assigned to them in respect of reconstruction do not at the present stage involve any executive duties, there has been no occasion to ask the House to consider the legislation that would be required to transfer any of the powers or duties of existing Departments of State.

Mr. White: Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that these matters are being considered, having regard to the fact that practical difficulties will arise and are in fact now arising, and must increase unless appropriate steps are taken?

Mr. Attlee: I think the Answer I have given is sufficient at the present stage.

Mr. Wedgwood: May I ask whether in this connection there is not an urgent

necessity for a general valuation to be ready by the time reconstruction begins?

Mr. Attlee: That hardly arises out of this Question.

Sir Herbert Williams: May I ask whether, the Minister without Portfolio now being the Minister for the future, any Questions can be addressed to him, or will they always be objected to on the ground that they are hypothetical?

Oral Answers to Questions — ARMED FORCES (DISCHARGED OFFICERS, RANK).

Colonel Arthur Evans: asked the Prime Minister whether he will state the technical difficulties which have arisen in connection with the decision, regarding the rank to be retained by officers of the three Fighting Services who have been discharged on medical grounds, which he indicated on 17th July last would be shortly announced; what is the present position, and when will the necessary regulations be issued by the Departments concerned?

Mr. Attlee: I regret that among the many pressing matters of importance which have had to be dealt with by the Departments concerned it has not yet been found possible to reach a final decision on this matter.

Colonel Evans: Will my right hon. Friend indicate when a decision is likely to be arrived at, bearing in mind that through no fault of their own the officers concerned are being deprived of an honour they have justly gained?

Mr. Attlee: I hope, very shortly.

Oral Answers to Questions — MINISTERIAL OFFICES.

Mr. Mander: asked the Prime Minister the number of new Ministerial offices created since the outbreak of war; and whether he will consider their reduction wherever possible, in the interests of economy and Parliamentary independence?

Mr. Attlee: Twenty-two. I will circulate a list of the new Ministerial offices created since the outbreak of war. Ministerial appointments are continually under my right hon. Friend's review, and he will not lose sight of the considerations mentioned by my hon. Friend.

Mr. Mander: Is this not a matter which could suitably be referred to the Select Committee on National Expenditure?

Following is the list:

Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries— Additional Parliamentary Secretary (The Rt. Hon. the Duke of Norfolk, K.G.).

*Ministry of Aircraft Production—Minister (The Rt. Hon. Lord Beaverbrook). Parliamentary Secretary (Colonel J. J. Llewellin, C.B.E., M.C., M.P.).

*Ministry of Economic Warfare—Minister (The Rt. Hon. Hugh Dalton, M.P.). Parliamentary Secretary (D. M. Foot, M.P.).

*Ministry of Food—Minister (The Rt. Hon. Lord Woolton). Parliamentary Secretary (Major G. Lloyd George, M.P.).

*Ministry of Home Security—Minister (The Rt. Hon. Herbert Morrison, M.P.). Parliamentary Secretaries (W. Mabane, M.P., and Miss Ellen Wilkinson, M.P.).

*Ministry of Information—Minister (The Rt. Hon. A. Duff Cooper, D.S.O., M.P.). Parliamentary Secretary (The Hon. Harold Nicolson, C.M.G., M.P.).

Ministry of Labour and National Service —Additional Parliamentary Secretary (G. Tomlinson, M.P.).

*Petroleum Department—Secretary for Petroleum (Geoffrey W. Lloyd, M.P.).

Scottish Office—Parliamentary Undersecretary of State (H. J. Scrymgeour Wedderburn, M.P.).

*Ministry of Shipping—Minister (The Rt. Hon. Ronald Cross, M.P.). Parliamentary Secretary (Sir Arthur Salter, K.C.B., M.P.).

Ministry of Supply—Additional Parliamentary Secretary (The Lord Portal, D.S.O. M.V.O.).

Treasury—Additional Parliamentary Secretary (The Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Edwards, C.B.E., J.P., M.P.).

War Office—Additional Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Brigadier-General Lord Croft, C.M.G., T.D.).

*Ministry of Works and Public Buildings —Minister (The Rt. Hon. Lord Reith, G.C.V.O., G.B.E.). Parliamentary Secretary (E. G. Hicks, M.P.).

* These are new Ministries.

Oral Answers to Questions — AGRICULTURE.

DEER, HARES AND RABBITS.

49. Mr. Leslie: asked the Minister of Agriculture what reports ho has received from local committees as to the granting of permits to enter land to kill deer, hares and rabbits; and to what extent the animals have been available as food to the public?

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. R. S. Hudson): I have no precise information.

Mr. Leslie: In order to add to the food supply, would it not be a good idea to give a free hand to poachers?

ALLOTMENTS.

Sir Stanley Reed: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, with a view to stimulating the allotment movement, and the encouragement of good cultivators, he will consider giving holders security of tenure after the war, either in the form of permanent tenure, or agreed terms of not less than seven years?

Mr. Hudson: I am afraid that it would not be practicable to give effect to my hon. Friend's suggestion at the present time.

Sir S. Reed: Is my right hon. Friend aware that allotment holders are deterred from giving more attention to their allotments because of the insecurity which at present exists?

Mr. Hudson: I know of no evidence to that effect.

Mr. Parker: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will instruct war agricultural executive committees not to order farmers or smallholders to grow any crops which are now being largely produced on allotments and/or where there is an adequate supply?

Mr. Hudson: The only vegetable crop which war agricultural executive committees have been asked to order farmers and smallholders to grow is potatoes, and the greatly extended acreage to be obtained by these means is a vital part of the Government's food production policy. Substantially increased acreages of other vegetable crops, such as onions and carrots, are also to be secured from farmers and others as part of the same


policy, but it has not so far been considered desirable to issue orders to grow these crops. The contribution to the nation's food supply of vegetable crops grown in allotments and private gardens, although appreciable and of vital importance, is by no means sufficient for our needs, and certainly not of such a volume as to exclude the production on commercial holdings.

FEEDING-STUFFS (COUPONS).

Sir H. Williams: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that the committee which is rationing animal foodstuffs in the Petworth area of Sussex has issued to farmers a document, not indicating its source of origin, enclosing coupons to purchase feeding-stuffs but giving no guarantee that food will be available in exchange for them, and warning the farmers that unless they plough additional grassland and make their farms self-supporting, they may well have to slaughter their cattle next winter; and whether this action has been taken with his approval?

Mr. Hudson: Coupons entitling the recipient to purchase certain kinds of feeding-stuffs have been distributed by county war agricultural executive committees, and the coupons were accompanied by a letter of explanation. I am not aware that this explanatory letter, as sent out by the West Sussex committee, was of the kind suggested by my lion. Friend. Perhaps he will be good enough to send me a copy.

Sir H. Williams: Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is not a letter, but a printed card, finishing up with the words, "You have been warned"?

Mr. Hudson: I see nothing inherently-wrong in that. If my hon. Friend will send me a copy of the document, I will look at it.

Sir H. Williams: Is it not desirable that communications of this kind should bear an indication of their origin, with an address and signature?

Mr. Hudson: That depends on whether it was sent out by the committee.

Oral Answers to Questions — CINEMAS, THEATRES AND MUSIC HALLS (SUNDAY OPENING).

Colonel Sandeman Allen: asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the

special war-time need experienced in many districts of opportunities for recreation and amusement on Sundays, not only for members of the Fighting Forces but also for industrial workers, consideration has been given to the question of empowering local authorities in such districts to allow the Sunday opening of cinemas and theatres?

Mr. H. Morrison: Yes, Sir. As a result of war conditions, special considerations arise, affecting not only members of the Fighting Services but also industrial workers, of whom many have little or no chance in present circumstances of going to places of amusement during the week, and many are living away from their homes and their friends and, therefore, are in special need of places to go to during their Sunday leisure. By Defence Regulation 42B, local authorities have already been empowered to adopt a simplified procedure for authorising the Sunday opening of cinemas in areas where large numbers of troops are concentrated; and it is proposed to amend the Regulation so as to give similar powers to local authorities in districts where the conditions in which industrial work is carried on create a similar need. Moreover, the war-time reasons for facilitating Sunday cinematograph entertainments apply equally to theatrical entertainments: and it seems right to give to local authorities in districts where these war-time reasons obtain the same discretion with regard to theatres and music halls as with regard to cinemas. Accordingly, the view of the Government is that a Defence Regulation should be made enabling licensing authorities, on the representation of the local authority in places where the presence of troops or changed industrial conditions create a special need, to authorise the opening of theatres and music halls. The condition will apply which already applies to cinemas, that all employés must be given one day's rest in seven, but it is not proposed to apply to theatres or music halls the condition that a proportion of the profits must be devoted to a charitable purpose. The Defence Regulation will contain a provision so dating its operation that the House may, if that be its desire, have an opportunity of debating the Regulation before it takes effect.

Colonel Sandeman Allen: Would my right hon. Friend recommend that such amusement times should not clash with the morning church services?

Mr. Morrison: No doubt the local authorities will keep that in mind. I will take it into account. Perhaps I ought to have added that, owing to the particular circumstances and legal provisions applying to Scotland, this will not apply to Scotland.

Sir Percy Harris: Will it apply to the London area?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir.

Mr. R. C. Morrison: Is my right hon. Friend aware that only recently the Middlesex County Council decided not to allow cinemas to open on Good Friday? Will he take action?

Mr. H. Morrison: I hardly think I ought to be pressed to take action about that.

Oral Answers to Questions — NATIONAL FINANCE.

COMPANIES' PROFITS.

Mr. Ellis Smith: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will consider making an arrangement so that he shall take over all profits made by companies over 3 per cent. after having made allowances for allocations on the basis of the financial year of 1939?

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Captain Crookshank): My hon. Friend will not expect my right hon. Friend to anticipate his Budget statement.

BANKING, FINANCE AND CREDIT.

Mr. E. Smith: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will appoint a committee to inquire into banking, finance and credit, with a view to reporting as soon as possible on how credit can be best utilised for the benefit of the nation, the establishment of a national central financial authority, the stabilising of prices and a long-term policy for a planned economy?

Captain Crookshank: No, Sir. My right hon. Friend does not think such an inquiry is either necessary or desirable at the present time.

Mr. Smith: In view of the fact that industry is now being mobilised in the

war effort, does not my right hon. and gallant Friend consider that finance and credit should also be harnessed to the nation's needs, and, if so, are not the suggestions made in the Question essential steps to take with that object in view?

Mr. Granville: Will the Financial Secretary take into consideration that the direct taxation of industry has now reached a point when it is necessary for industrial concerns, with the extension of capital outlay and war production to borrow from the banks in order to pay taxation?

WAR DAMAGE BILL.

Captain Plugge: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the uncertainty of those whose property has been destroyed as a result of enemy action as to their exact position in regard to compensation, and who think they are entitled at once to claim from the Assistance Board, the local authority, or the State, the total sum of their losses, he can make a public explanation of what such persons must do in anticipation of the War Damage Bill becoming law?

Captain Crookshank: The existing position is explained in the Ministry of Information leaflet, entitled "After the Raid," of which I am sending my hon. and gallant Friend a copy.

Mr. T. Smith: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is intended, under the War Damage Bill, to enforce payment of contributions in respect of minerals below ground?

Captain Crookshank: Perhaps my hon. Friend will await a new Clause for the War Damage Bill which my right hon. Friend proposes to submit to the House on this matter.

Oral Answers to Questions — FOOD SUPPLIES.

CANTEENS (EQUIPMENT).

68. Mr. Butcher: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware of the difficulty of securing equipment for works and other canteens; and whether he is prepared to requisition suitable equipment now lying idle in boarding houses and hotels in many parts of the country?

Mr. Whiteley (Comptroller of the Household): I have been asked to reply. The answer to the first part of my hon.


Friend's Question is in the affirmative. Assistance is being provided as far as practicable both by the Ministry of Food and the Ministry of Labour. As regards the last part of the Question, my Noble Friend would be prepared to adopt the course suggested in any suitable case.

UNKATIONED FOODSTUFFS (DISTRIBUTION).

Mr. Butcher: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware of the present un satisfactory distribution of unrationed foodstuffs, leading to ample supplies in one district and acute shortage in another; whether this distribution is based on the number of ration books registered in the various areas, or on pre-war figures of population; and what steps he is taking to secure better distribution?

Mr. Whiteley: The distribution of unrationed foodstuffs is not, generally speaking, related to the number of ration books registered in the district, but to the orders placed by local traders which are based upon past experience of the local demand. With a view to adjusting supplies more closely to current requirements, guidance has recently been given to manufacturers and wholesalers of foodstuffs in order to assist them in the geographical re-adjustment of supplies to correspond with population movements. Discussions are now proceeding with manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers with a view to the improvement of the distribution of important unrationed foodstuffs which are in short supply.

FRIED FISH INDUSTRY.

Mr. Denville: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether, in view of the many grievances entertained by the fried fish industry in respect of classification of certain foods, he will receive a deputation at an early date to discuss these matters?

Mr. Whiteley: My Noble Friend is not aware of any difficulties experienced by fish friers in respect of the classification of certain foods, but if my hon. Friend will let him have particulars he will consider whether an interview with a representative of the industry would be of assistance.

Mr. Mander: Is it not the case that there are other points also on which the

fried fish industry is very anxious to consult with the Ministry, and will the Minister be prepared to receive a deputation on other points as well?

Mr. Whiteley: The Ministry has already met the wholesale fish merchants, and conferences have been held in an endeavour to draw up a workable scheme that will assist both fish friers and fish merchants generally.

TOBACCO SUPPLIES.

Mr. Denville: asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that in the North-East in general, and Newcastle in particular, there is a great shortage of tobacco; and what steps he is taking to remedy the situation?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Captain Waterhouse): No, Sir. Temporary local shortages of some brands of cigarettes and tobacco have occurred in various areas, but there is no evidence of a serious shortage of supplies in the North-East or elsewhere.

Mr. Denville: Is my hon. and gallant Friend aware that it is common knowledge in Newcastle that workmen are going from one shop to another trying to buy a packet of "fags," and they cannot get them?

Captain Waterhouse: If my hon. Friend can give me information of specific cases, I will gladly look into them. The fact is that there should be no shortage, as manufacturers are now receiving supplies of tobacco.

BRITISH MANUFACTURING AND RESEARCH COMPANY, LIMITED.

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of SIR WAI.DRON SMITHERS:

73. "To ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aircraft Production whether, in view of the fact that the company is doing Government work, he will investigate the overhead charges of the British Manufacturing and Research Company, Limited, of Grantham, and the qualifications of certain of its officials?"

Sir W. Smithers: May I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker? I put this Question down to the Treasury, with the object of getting a Treasury inquiry into


this matter, and it has been transferred to the Ministry of Aircraft Production, and I do not think that a Ministry of Aircraft Production inquiry would do much good.

Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member should await the answer.

Sir W. Smithers: Then, I will now ask the Question.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aircraft Production (Colonel Llewellin): Investigation into the overhead costs of this company will be made by the Department's accountants in the normal way in connection with the settlement of prices under contracts with the Department. We are well satisfied with the production of this company, and my Noble Friend does not think it necessary to investigate the qualifications of the company's officials.

Sir W. Smithers: Owing to the most unsatisfactory nature of the reply—it is exactly the reply I expected—I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Oral Answers to Questions — BRITISH ARMY.

S.S. "ETTRICK" (ALIENS, TREATMENT).

Sir W. Smithers: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has, or will, obtain full information as to the conditions obtaining in the s.s. "Ettrick," which sailed in July, 1940; and whether he will cause disciplinary action to be taken against those responsible, and take steps to ensure that such conditions will not occur again?

The Financial Secretary to the War Office (Mr. Richard Law): I have received statements on this subject within the last day or two, and I am having inquiries made. My hon. Friend will agree that, pending those inquiries, it would be premature to decide what action is called for.

Mr. Mander: Is it the case that the Secretary of State for War is considering at the present time the advisability of having an inquiry into the matter, as was the case in respect of the "Dunera"?

Mr. Law: I have indicated that a preliminary inquiry is already being made, but it is not completed.

Sir W. Smithers: Will the result of these inquiries be made public?

Mr. Law: That is a Question that I should like to see put upon the Paper.

S.S. "DUNERA" (INQUIRY).

Mr. Edmund Harvey: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has received information as to the hardship caused to internees sent to Australia on the s.s. "Dunera" through their having had their money taken from them before their arrival in Australia; and whether, pending the inquiry which has been promised, any arrangement has been made to provide these internees with a minimum allowance of pocket money?

Mr. Law: I am aware of the representations that have been made on this subject, and, as my right hon. Friend has already promised, ever endeavour will be made to ascertain the facts. As regards the remittance of money to internees in Australia, I would refer by hon. Friend to the answer given to my right hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Wedgwood) on Tuesday last, of which I am sending him a copy.

Miss Rathbone: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that for six months some of these internees in Australia have been penniless and have had no money to spend on cigarettes or anything else because it was taken from them either on board the "Dunera" or before they left?

Mr. Law: That is the allegation, but we must await the result of the Court of Inquiry to see whether or not it is well founded.

Mr. Benjamin Smith: Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that those interned in foreign countries are in a worse position than those in Australia?

Mr. Wedgwood: Will the hon. Member remember that it is the British Empire we are talking about, and not foreign countries? May I ask the Financial Secretary whether he can give us any idea when this Court of Inquiry will be held and whether it will include the "Ettrick"?

Mr. Law: My right hon. Friend has already indicated that the Court of Inquiry is to be set up as soon as the preliminary inquiry is complete. As to whether it will include the "Ettrick" or not, perhaps my right hon. Friend would put that Question on the Paper

OCCUPIED FRANCE (BRITISH SUBJECTS).

Mr. Harvey: asked the Secretary of State for foreign Affairs the present position of British subjects interned in occupied France; and whether satisfactory arrangements have been made for the supply of clothing and other necessaries to the internees?

The Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Butler): I am anxious to give the House full information on this subject. As my reply must consequently be rather long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the reply:

The hon. Member has no doubt seen the reply given on 22nd January to my hon. Friend the Member for South Kensington (Sir W. Davison). Since then my right hon. Friend has received official information that all British subjects, including those from the Bordeaux and Nantes districts, and those from Dinard and Dinan, who are interned in occupied France, are concentrated at three localities—St. Denis (Paris), Drancy (Paris) and Bcsançon (Doubs). The postal addresses of these three camps have been given publicity in the Press. There is, however, one small group of about 60 persons interned at Troyes, about whom I have made inquiries and am awaiting further information. Many of the British subjects who were interned have now been released. in general, they fall into the following categories: Children up to 16 years of age, mothers of children up to 16 years of age, women over 60 years of age, and ailing elderly men. There are now no restrictions as to where those who are released may live, with the exception of certain coastal areas. Consequently the majority of those persons released have returned to their former homes. I am expecting to receive in the very near future the names of those Who are at Besançon and Drancy, and of those who have been released from those two camps. The names of the internees at St. Denis, who number some 1,700, are known, and their relatives in this country and elsewhere in His Majesty's Dominions, whose whereabouts are known, have been informed by the Foreign Office. Arrangements have now been made to provide the internees in France with small sums of money to purchase

necessaries, and the United States authorities have been authorised to incur expenditure on clothing and medical supplies.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. Lees-Smith: May I ask the Lord Privy Seal what is the Business of the house for the next Sitting Days?

Mr. Attlee: On the First and Second Sitting Days we shall take the concluding-stages of the War Damage Bill. It will be necessary in any event to re-commit certain parts of the War Damage Bill in order to carry out some of the undertakings given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer during the Committee stage. From conversations which have taken place, we understand that it will be to the convenience of hon. Members if the outstanding points on the Bill are discussed entirely on re-committal rather than some being taken in Committee and others on the Report stage. In order to meet the general convenience of the House, a Motion has been put down to re-commit the Bill as a whole. We shall, therefore, begin this stage on the First Sitting Day and bring it to a conclusion on the second day at a convenient hour which will allow sufficient time for a formal Report stage and the Third Reading.
On the Third Sitting Day we shall consider the House of Commons Disqualification (Temporary Provisions) Bill.

Mr. Granville: Will there be an opportunity for a Debate on the food position? I asked this Question last week, and I was told that it was being considered. Has the matter received consideration?

Mr. Attlee: I am afraid there will be no time in the immediate future, at any rate before Easter, as our programme is already full.

Mr. Rhys Davies: Can my right hon. Friend say whether any progress has been made with arrangements for a Debate on the cotton situation?

Mr. Attlee: I am pursuing my inquiries.

Mr. Mander: If necessary, will the whole day be available for the discussion of the House of Commons Disqualification (Temporary Provisions) Bill?

Mr. Attlee: That is the only Business for the day.

ISSUE OF WRITS (MEMBERS PRESUMED DEAD).

Mr. Speaker: Since I made my Statement to the House on 6th February about the procedure to be adopted in connection with the issue of writs in the room of Members presumed to have been killed on active service, I have, as I informed the House, received suggestions which have required and received careful consideration. I have had to delay my final statement in order to see to what extent it is possible to adapt my original proposals to these suggestions.
It has been suggested to me that it is desirable that the House should have a more direct responsibility for determining when a vacancy through presumption of death has arisen, and also that any scheme of procedure should be sufficiently comprehensive to include other cases of presumed death through enemy action as well as the case of Members presumed to have been killed on active service. I think these are valuable suggestions, and I have taken them into account in the procedure which I now suggest to the House.
For the purpose of determining the existence of vacancies through presumption of death, I propose to secure the assistance of a panel of advisers, consisting of Members representative of the various sections of opinion in the House. When the presumed death of a Member through any form of enemy action has been notified to me, I will, at my discretion, consult two members of this panel, and, if it is found necessary, inquire into the evidence on which the presumption of death is based. If satisfied, I will announce the presumed death of the Member to the House, according to my usual practice. I propose that a period of a week should then be allowed to elapse, during which it would be open to any Member of the House to address a request to me for further information. After the expiration of a week, it would be permissible to move a writ in the room of the Member presumed to be dead.
I have invited the following Members to serve on the proposed panel: The right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Rye (Colonel Sir George Courthope); the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Antrim (Sir Hugh O'Neill); the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Platting (Mr. Clynes); the right hon. Gentleman the

Member for Keighley (Mr. Lees-Smith); and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir Percy Harris).

Orders of the Day — SUPPLY [18th February],

Resolutions reported:

CIVIL ESTIMATES, SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, 1940.

CLASS II.

DOMINION SERVICES.

1. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for sundry Dominion services, including certain grants in aid, and for expenditure in connection with Ex-Service Men in Eire, and for a grant in aid to Eire in respect of compensation to transferred officers"

COLONIAL OFFICE.

2. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £21,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of His Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies."

COLONIAL AND MIDDLE EASTERN SERVICES.

3. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £691,500, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st of March, 1941, for sundry Colonial and Middle Eastern Services under His Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, including certain non-effective services and grants in aid."

SITE FOR MOSLEM MOSQUE.

4. "That a sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the purchase of a site in connection with the building of a Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre in London."

FOREIGN OFFICE.

5. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £19,250, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of His Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and grants in aid of the Royal Institute of Inter national Affairs and the British Association for International Understanding."

DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR SERVICES.

6. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £291,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the expenses in connection with His Majesty's Embassies, Missions and Consular Establishments Abroad, and other expenditure chargeable to the Consular Vote; certain special grants and payments,

including grants in aid; and sundry other services."

CLASS VII.

MINISTRY OF WORKS AND BUILDINGS.

7. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Works and Buildings."

LABOUR AND HEALTH BUILDINGS, GREAT BRITAIN.

8. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £162,755, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for expenditure in respect of labour and health buildings, Great Britain."

MISCELLANEOUS LEGAL BUILDINGS, GREAT BRITAIN.

9. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £18,720, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for expenditure in respect of miscellaneous legal buildings."

PUBLIC BUILDINGS, GREAT BRITAIN.

10. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £914,710, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for expenditure in respect of sundry public buildings in Great Britain, not provided for on other Votes, including historic buildings, ancient monuments, Brompton Cemetery and certain housing estates."

REVENUE BUILDINGS.

11. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £256,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for expenditure in respect of Customs and Excise, Inland Revenue, Post Office and telegraph buildings in Great Britain, certain post: offices abroad, and for certain expenses in connection with boats and launches belonging to the Customs and Excise Department."

CLASS IV.

BROADCASTING.

12. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £200,000, be granted to His Majesty to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for a grant in aid of the British Broadcasting Corporation."

CLASS V.

MINISTRY OF LABOUR AND NATIONAL SERVICE.

13. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £1,100,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and


expenses of the Ministry of Labour and National Service, including sums payable by the Exchequer to the Unemployment Fund, grants to local authorities, associations and other bodies in respect of unemployment insurance, employment exchange and other services; expenses of transfer and resettlement; expenses of training (including, on behalf of the Army Council, training of soldiers); contribution towards the expenses of the International Labour Organisation (League of Nations); expenses of the Industrial Court; expenses in connection with national service; and sundry services."

UNCLASSIFIED SERVICES.

MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (WAR SERVICES).

14. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the cost of the war services of the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries."

CLASS VI.

MILK (ENGLAND AND WALES).

15. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £50,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1041, for payments in respect of milk used for manufacture in England and Wales, payments for improving the quality of the milk supply in England and Wales, and contributions towards certain expenses of the Milk Marketing Board in England and Wales."

MILK (SCOTLAND).

16. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for payments in respect of milk used for manufacture in Scot land, payments for improving the quality of the milk supply in Scotland and contributions towards certain expenses of Milk Marketing Boards in Scotland."

UNCLASSIFIED SERVICES.

MINISTRY OF HEALTH (WAR SERVICES).

17. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for measures in England and Wales to deal with casualties and disease, for expenses connected with evacuation, for repair of war damage and for other services arising out of the war."

CLASS IX.

EXCHEQUER CONTRIBUTIONS TO LOCAL REVENUES, ENGLAND AND WALES.

18 "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £106,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the General Exchequer Contribution and certain other grants to local authorities in England and Wales."

EXCHEQUER CONTRIBUTIONS TO LOCAL REVENUES, SCOTLAND.

19. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £3,273, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the General Exchequer Contribution and certain other grants to local authorities in Scotland."

CLASS I.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

20. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,200, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the House of Commons, including a grant in aid to the Kitchen Committee."

PRIVY COUNCIL OFFICE.

21. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,775, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the, Department of His Majesty's most Honourable Privy Council."

CLASS VII.

RATES ON GOVERNMENT PROPERTY.

22. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £171,070, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for rates and contributions in lieu of rates, etc., in respect of property in the occupation of the Crown for the public service, and for rates on buildings occupied by representatives of British Dominions and of Foreign Powers; and for the salaries and expenses of the Rating of Government Property Department, and a grant in aid of the expenses of the London Fire Brigade."

UNCLASSIFIED SERVICES.

MINISTRY OF HOME SECURITY.

23. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Home Security."

CLASS VI.

STATE MANAGEMENT DISTRICTS.

24. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the State Management Districts, including the salaries of the central office, and the cost of provision and management of licensed premises."

UNCLASSIFIED SERVICES.

MINISTRY OF SHIPPING.

25. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course


of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Shipping."

MINISTRY OF SUPPLY.

26. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Supply, including the expenses of the Royal Ordnance Factories."

MINISTRY OF AIRCRAFT PRODUCTION.

27. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Aircraft Production."

Resolutions agreed to.

Orders of the Day — LAND DRAINAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.

Order for Second Reading read.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. T. Johnston): I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
I am not the parent of this Measure, although I am proud of it. The parent is my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health. I came to the House in 1922 with a vision before me of the great and shameful waste caused by flooding in the neighbourhood of my home. In my childhood I saw flood banks washed away, cattle drowned, and food destroyed. I saw this happen six times a year, and I saw repairs made at the public expense six times a year. Thousands of acres of first-class agricultural land raised nothing and were used only by seagulls and mosquitoes. No one proprietor of land could be blamed for this, and no one proprietor had the power to remedy it. There were 70 proprietors over a stretch of 12 miles. If one proprietor was able and willing to raise floodgates, his efforts could be rendered useless by some other proprietor further up the water. So, with a fatalism that almost brought agriculturists to despair, we had to acquiesce in this wastage of our national wealth. Then came 1930 and we got a land drainage Measure through this House covering a period of five years which, later on, was extended by two years. That Act, in so far as its cumbrous machinery has allowed it to

work, has succeeded well. Work has been completed on two schemes and in the case of a third, namely, the River Kelvin scheme, work is still in progress. Under that Act it took from six to nine months after a scheme had been decided upon to get operations started. First, we had to settle claims for compensation. We had to settle also claims in respect of betterment. We had to adjust disputes and if we could not adjust them, we had to go to arbitration. Finally, the scheme so adjusted or arbitrated, had to be laid for a month on the Table of this House and on the Table in another place.
Under the Measure which we ask the House to approve to-day, this long elaborate and delaying process has been eliminated. In the Bill we provide, first for consultation with the Agricultural Executive Committees. Then we propose to prepare the schemes. Many schemes are already prepared and ready for immediate operation when this Measure has been placed on the Statute Book. After a scheme has been prepared we propose to notify all owners and occupiers affected and give them a reasonable chance to make objections. Then we go ahead with the work. We allow them a further month to make claims for compensation for damage, and after two years —long after the work has been completed —if there should be any further claims for compensation, upon grounds that could not reasonably be foreseen in the initial stages, those claims will still have to be considered. We further provide that the Land Court, which is generally accepted in agricultural circles in Scotland as a fair, reasonable and expeditious tribunal, is to determine those cases. Where we cannot achieve a settlement by negotiation and agreement, disputes will be referred to the Land Court. We provide that all betterment achieved at the public expense shall be a charge on the proprietor. That charge may be made in a lump sum, or by an annual rate levied on the proprietor or proprietors, through the local authorities. Expenses over and above betterment are to be met by the State.
The reason for urgency here is obvious. Food production must be increased. We must have more expeditious procedure and the schemes which we have in mind to operate immediately are schemes by which


we calculate that the land affected will be in full production for the harvest of 1942. Our schemes will be limited only by the amount of labour that is available. In this connection I may say that I believe a considerable number of men who have hitherto been described as surplus to requirements in the coal industry, because of their age, would make admirable workmen on these schemes. They are accustomed to these and similar operations, and they are accustomed to working amidst damp. We have in mind immediate recourse to the Ministry of Labour to call to the aid of the Department of Agriculture for Scotland as many of these men as can be secured.
We propose to start at once six or seven schemes representing the renovation of some 12,000 acres in Scotland. The gross cost is estimated to be in the neighbourhood of £100,000, and after betterment has been recovered the net cost to the State we estimate will be £50,000. As a result of this work 12,000 acres of land now useless are expected to produce about 51,000 tons of food—no mean achievement in these days. The schemes which we propose include the River Nith scheme, affecting a district where during the floods of 1931 eight acres of splendid agricultural land were completely washed away; where villages had been flooded and where water occasionally covers the land to a depth of four or five feet. There we propose to begin operations at once. Other schemes which we propose to undertake after consultation with the county agricultural committees—and some of these consultations have already been held—are as follow: The Lochar Water, in Dumfriesshire; the Mouse Water, in Lanarkshire; The Almond, in Mid and West Lothian; the upper section of the River Annan; the Goodie Water; the Lyne Water, in Peeblesshire; the River Eden, in Fife; two tributories of the Tay, the Isla and the Dean; and sundry small schemes.
Those are the aims and objects which the Measure is designed to achieve. It has been received favourably by persons who are qualified to speak for agriculture in Scotland. It meets an urgent necessity for food production and is, I submit, an economic Measure which will yield to the State beneficial results in many directions. Therefore, I commend it to the House.

Mr. Barr: I have been asked on behalf of some of my hon. Friends and colleagues on these benches to give a cordial welcome to this Bill, and I believe that in doing so I can speak, in the main, for hon. Members in all parts of the House. We recognise handsomely the part which was played in the preparation of this Measure by the former Secretary of State for Scotland, now Minister of Health. We must congratulate the new Secretary of State for Scotland both on his accession to office and on the very congenial task which was assigned to him to-day in moving the Second Reading of this Bill. When my hon. Friend spoke of his grandfatherly interest, it made me think that I was a grandfather as well, because I remember in early days reading many of his articles in the Press on this very subject. On this subject he has taken a life interest, both in public life and in administration throughout his career. I congratulate him on his accession to office, and on bringing forward the Second Reading of this Measure, which is so congenial to us all. He spoke of the effects of flooding in his own area, and anyone who lives in the West of Scotland and has seen the great damage resulting from the flooding of the Kelvin cannot but agree with the urgency of this proposal. Indeed, I have seen the results in many parts of the country to which he has referred. He made reference to the River Nith and the River Annan; in both these cases, I have seen serious damage, because it was my lot to live on the banks of the River Annan for six years in connection with my first ministry in Scotland.
So far as this Measure has been outlined, and is now in our hands, it commends itself to us; and the principle of betterment is again recognised. In a way, the Bill is a modest Measure, covering something like £100,000 and an acreage of 12,000. It is addressed to those parts of the country indicated, through the machinery provided by the agricultural executive committee; where any cases of difference may arise, the subject will be dealt with by the Land Court, which the Minister rightly said commands the general support of agriculturists and the people of Scotland. It provides that the most needy areas, and what is more important the most likely areas to yield production quickly, are to be taken up in the first instance.
I shall only mention one other matter, because I do not wish to go into details. What appeals to us is the note of urgency which the Minister has sounded, and which is embodied in the Bill. The cumbrous procedure of the Act of 1930, where operations were delayed not only by the procedure, but also because of the financial stringency of the time, which in some regards led to a hold-up of both the Land Drainage Act for England and the Land Drainage Act for Scotland, is swept away. Schemes for compensation and the like, instead of being allowed to hold up the Bill, are so arranged that at a certain stage, with due safeguards, the Secretary of State can step in and proceed with the work, although some of these claims are still outstanding, and will be settled later in the way provided. With these few words, I end as I began by giving a very cordial welcome to this Bill, and by congratulating the Secretary of State for Scotland, whom we are pleased to see in the office he now occupies. I have no doubt that he will bring forward other projects for the benefit of agriculture and food supplies in Scotland, and we wish him all success.

Mr. Snadden: It would seem almost ungracious to the Secretary of State for Scotland if this small Bill were allowed to pass without a word of congratulation from this side of the House, and if the Government were not congratulated on having taken a step, however small, towards the restoration of what one might call the lost lands of Scotland. In the foreground of the agricultural picture, as I see it to-day, there are many thousands of acres of existing arable and grassland which are incapable of achieving maximum production because of the fact that they are insufficiently drained. In the background we have the colossal problem of restoring thousands of acres of waste land. These acres are partly immobilised, and in many cases wholly immobilised, to the extent that they are a pure waste and contributing nothing whatever to the national effort. There is a stretch of land in my own constituency, not very far from where I live, which could be and should be rich and fertile land, growing heavy crops. In that area there are probably between four and five thousand acres of land which could be and should be among

the most fertile land of Scotland. If this land had been drained before the war took place, I estimate that to-day we would have something like £60,000 worth of foodstuffs being produced from it. These derelict acres are a disgrace to the State, and, looking back over the wasted years, I, for one, marvel at the apathy of past Governments in their failure to face up to this problem. To-day we are paying the penalty for past neglect.
No one can say that, even under this Bill, where the total estimated expenditure is 100,000 and the estimated acreage involved is only 12,000, a real effort is being made towards the restoration of our lost lands. Take the county of Lanark. There are some 230,000 to 250,000 acres under crops and grass; probably one-quarter of that acreage requires drainage —five times the total amount covered by this Bill. By and large, the term '' waste land "applies more to England than to Scotland, but even so, North of the Border, very large areas of agricultural land are incapable of maximum production because of inefficient drainage, and in spite of all the fertilisers in the world. The land is sour and therefore inefficiently drained.
When I first glanced over this Bill I got rather a thrill. It warmed my heart, because the Secretary of State is given very great powers. He was always a strong man, but he is made exceedingly strong by this Measure. I thought very probably I should find a snag a little lower down, and I found it. I welcome the powers given to the Secretary of State, because I believe that nothing should stand in the way of maximum production of food from the land, whether in peace or in war, and, if we are to get through this war successfully, it seems rather extraordinary that we should still be able to detect the clutching hand of the Treasury. The Secretary of State, in the Memorandum, is made a very strong man, with great powers, but a little lower down he is, to my mind, totally disarmed, nearly bound hand and foot, by the limitations imposed upon him. I do not believe that you can do anything really substantial with such a figure as £100,000 for the whole of Scotland, nor do I believe that £10 per acre, beyond which no scheme can be promoted, is anything like adequate. I cannot see anyone draining efficiently to-day on £10


an acre, and I speak with some experience. I have recently carried out an extensive drainage scheme on my own property, and I should like to give the House the figures. For one acre, drains 10 yards apart, labour, £9 0s. 1d.; 165 four-inch tiles at 225s. per 1,000, £1 18s. 9,d.; 1,225 three-inch tiles at 135s. per 1,000, £8 5s. 4d.; total, £19 4s. 2d. I should like to ask the Secretary of State whether he can do something to expedite the payment of claims. They are very slow in coming, and people who spend money expect to be paid in a reasonable time.
There is one little problem, which I do not think is always understood, that I should like to bring to the right hon. Gentleman's notice. If an owner is going to drain, at the high cost with which he is faced, he very often stops short when he thinks his costs must have a bearing upon rental. That is why many schemes fall fiat to-day. He does not want to spend £20 an acre, although he gets £10 back from the Government, because he feels that he may have to put the rent up. Then there is the great question of labour. There are practically no skilled drainers available at all to-day, and the Bill, to my mind, is quite useless unless the Government organise regional labour. I think the Scottish farmer has been quick to recognise the valuable assistance given him by the Government, and I think Scotland relatively is well drained and, for that matter, very well farmed. But 1 think now is the time for the Secretary of State to make a survey. He has his agricultural committees doing extraordinarily good work and performing a very great national service. If we had a survey of our waterlogged areas, we should be in a very strong position when we come to consider, in the light of postwar agricultural policy, what we are going to do with our wet land. I hope the Secretary of State will use his powers vigorously, and I hope there may still be time to reconsider the limitations imposed upon him.

Mr. Kenneth Lindsay: I rise partly to congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his accession to office. We realise the great energy which the late Secretary of State displayed during his brief term of office and his partial or whole responsibility for the Bill. But I should like to say how much some of us in Scotland

appreciate something else that has been done, and that is the appointment, for the first time, I believe, of a second Under-Secretary of State. I think this has been due for a long time. It has been clear for many years that, if the very large Departmental responsibilities are to be properly exercised, there is need for further assistance from the Ministerial angle in Scotland itself. On personal grounds may I say how glad I am to see this very powerful combination of the right hon. Gentleman, with his very great past experience, and the Under-Secretary and the previous Under-Secretary, with their very special knowledge of agriculture, of social services, and of education? Some of us hope that this will mean a fresh impetus to Scottish administration, which is badly needed. We have badly needed someone almost wholly concerned with education for many years. Equally there is so much reorganisation necessary which has been neglected for 20 years—I say it advisedly—in the Highlands and Lowlands that I hope the right hon. Gentleman will at last be able to give his whole time to Scottish affairs, even if he has to go on being Regional Commissioner as well.
I think the hon. Member who spoke last is under some misapprehension. I gathered that his drainage was due to flooded areas, of which I have some in my constituency, and I hoped that some money and assistance might be forthcoming in that area. The Secretary of State said there were some miners who might possibly be employed in this work. For many years I have had in my constituency a number of miners, aged 55 and over, who are about the saddest sight in Scotland. There was talk of pensions, but nothing has ever happened. They belonged to mines which have ceased to work in the last 20 years. The younger members of the community have been translated to the areas where mining is moving a little further South, in Ayrshire, but the rest remain behind in these desolate areas. I believe that those men were among the few thousand for whom the Minister of Labour could not find work. It may be that for the first time some of them can be given work in a job which is not very different from some of their previous employment, especially as most miners have one foot in the mine and one on the land.

Mr. Hannah: I do not think anything could better justify our Coalition than the introduction of this splendid Bill. There is nothing more important than the revivifying of our Scottish countryside, and the production of food is almost equally important. I hope the Bill will do something along those lines. As a child I knew quite well a certain area in Peeblesshire which was admirable wheat land but is now derelict bog. I understand that one of the schemes proposed will benefit that particular area. I hope to see that district brought back to cultivation, growing wheat again and increasing the population of that district which is so badly wanted. I do not think this Bill can be considered as more than a hopeful and satisfactory beginning. I ask for a survey of the whole of Scotland, so that landowners maybe advised what is the best use to which their property can be put, whether for forestry, agriculture, pasture or arable, so that Scotland may be brought back to that splendid, vigorous, country life which has been its great strength. We realise that in no country in the world do the peasants to such an extent go to universities and take a prominent part in the affairs of the nation, particularly, perhaps, in the ministry of the Church of Scotland. This Bill, by reviving the Scottish countryside, is therefore one of the most satisfactory that has been introduced for a long time. I hope that it is but a small beginning and that we shall find every acre of Scotland carefully surveyed, so that it may be put to the best use of which it is capable.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Wedderburn): This is a Bill which gives power to the Secretary of State to carry out certain public works with money that is directly provided by the Exchequer and with labour that is directly employed by the Department of Agriculture. No objection has been raised to the granting of this power to the Secretary of State, and the only point for discussion is the means and the expedition with which the work can be carried out. I think that my hon. Friend the Member for West Perth (Mr. Snadden) has not quite understood the nature of the public works that are proposed under the Bill. It is entirely confined to arterial drainage. My hon. Friend was clearly thinking of field drainage over a wide area.

Mr. Snadden: The Bill refers to agricultural land capable of improvement, and I thought that if the work could not be done by an owner under the existing Government scheme, the Government would have power to do it for him under this Bill.

Mr. Wedderburn: I would remind my hon. Friend that a 50 per cent. grant is available for field drainage, but the works contemplated under this Bill are the lowering of river beds and the treatment of catchment areas in such a way as to enable land which is now uncultivable by flooding or by the water in the land to be brought under cultivation. That is the sole purpose of the Measure. I am glad to hear the remarks of those hon. Members who have described this as a hopeful and satisfactory beginning and who have asked us to do a great deal more. I would only remind them of the importance of the time factor. In order to carry out schemes of this kind, as the hon. Member for Bilston (Mr. Hannah) suggested, surveys are necessary. Surveys have been taken for the purpose of 10 fairly large schemes which it is proposed to complete, we hope, this year, when the Bill is passed. The estimated cost is £100,000, and that is the basis of the figure contained in the explanatory Memorandum. The House will recognise that in order to carry out the work on a wider scale it is necessary to have further surveys and to get good engineering opinion about the prospects.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Perth described the difficulty of obtaining a large supply of labour. That is obviously another limiting factor at the present moment. Other limiting factors are the amount of machinery which can be spared from our general war effort and the necessary preliminary surveys. The prime purpose of the Bill is to increase our food supply next year and the year after. That is why we have given the figures which appear to limit the scope of the Bill. They are, however, based on what has already been planned, and which, we have good reason to think, it will be practicable to carry out in the spring and summer of 1941. That is the sole reason for the limitations that have been criticised by hon. Members. If it be found possible to extend the scope of the principle that underlies the Bill, no one will be better pleased than my right hon. Friend. I would like to thank all hon. Members who have


spoken for the very helpful and kind response which they have given to the Bill, which we hope will strengthen our resources in war and, on a long view, increase our prosperity in peace.

Question, "That the Bill be now read a Second time," put, and agreed to.

Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House for the next Sitting Day.—[Mr. J. P. L. Thomas.]

Orders of the Day — LAND DRAINAGE (SCOTLAND) [MONEY].

Considered in Committee, under Standing Order No. 69.

[SIR DENNIS HERBERT in the Chair.]

Resolved,
That, for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to make further provision for the drainage of agricultural land in Scotland, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of the expenses to be incurred by the Secretary of State under the said Act and in so far as those expenses are recovered in the manner provided by the said Act to provide for their payment into the Exchequer."—[King's Recommendation signified.]—[Mr. Johnston.]

Resolution to be reported upon the next Sitting Day.

Orders of the Day — DIPLOMATIC PRIVILEGES(EXTENSION) BILL [Lords].

Order for Second Reading read.

The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler): I beg to move, "That this Bill be now read a Second time."
This is one of the few occasions on which the Foreign Office has been responsible for a Bill in Parliament. The object of the Bill is to confer certain immunities and privileges upon members of foreign Governments and envoys accredited to Allied Powers. We have in London at the present time a miniature Europe. We wish, consequently, to adjust the law of our country in order to meet the international character of our capital. I feel confident that the House will wish to honour these Allied Governments by giving to them the independent and dignified status to which their position and Sovereign powers entitle them. We shall be all the more inclined to take this step by reason of

the courage and policies of these administrations, which are in every respect worthy of their traditions. The House has already passed the Allied Forces Act, which confers on the Governments concerned power over their own nationals in respect of those forces which are so gallantly massed on our shores. We have already had many occasions to admire the heroic exploits which the Allied Forces have performed in defence of our own shores. We have also reason to be grateful for the material contribution which they are making to our common war effort. I refer in particular to the great assistance we have derived from the co-operation of the Colonial Empires of the Netherlands, of Belgium and of Free France. We are fighting not only for the freedom of individual conscience but for the free rights of peoples and the free functioning of government. Our cause is greatly strengthened by the example of these gallant Allied Governments, who, though forced to live in exile, are continuing to discharge their legitimate functions thus rendering London the focus of the resistance of a free Europe.
By conferring the privileges suggested in this Bill, I trust we shall make this country a real home of freedom for these determined representatives of national resistance. It is important that they should not live here as strangers in our midst, but should be assured of the status and privileges of their situation. Such privileges were accorded to the Government of Belgium during the last war by the French Government; while in this war, before the fall of France, privileges similar to those suggested here were afforded by France to the Poles. The representatives of a foreign Power accredited to the Court of St. James enjoy certain privileges in this country. These are, notably, freedom from local jurisdiction, the special protection of residence, and certain fiscal advantages. The legal position of the sovereigns or heads of States is covered by international law and recognised in our own courts, but the individual members of Allied Governments and their official staffs are not so covered.
If hon. Members will turn to Clause 1 of the Bill, they will see that it proposes to confer a position corresponding to that


of members of the Diplomatic Corps upon the members and senior officials of the Allied Governments of Poland, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and the provisional Czecho-Slovak Government. The privileges and immunities will also be conferred on the leaders and senior officials of the Free French movement established in this country. No doubt there will be general agreement that the Ministers of Allied Government and leaders of national movements should enjoy a status not less favourable than the diplomatic representatives accredited to the Court of St. James. As regards the official staffs of these Governments the House will no doubt, wish to know upon whom it is proposed to confer immunities and privileges. It has been decided that the names of the individuals falling within our definition shall be included in a list to be published in the "London Gazette." His Majesty's Government and the Allied Governments will agree upon the names that are to appear in this list.
Turning to Clause 2, the House will see that this treats of the position of diplomats accredited to Allied Governments at present in our country. Allied Governments at present here have in most cases diplomats of other Powers accredited to them. It is suggested that protection corresponding to that afforded to diplomatic envoys accredited to the Court of St. James should be granted to those representatives. With these explanations, and taking into account the sentiments of my opening remarks, I trust that the House will give a Second Reading to this Bill and will rejoice in doing so. My right hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor-General will be very glad to answer any points which may arise.

Mr. Wedgwood: I have not studied this Bill, and I should like an explanation on this one point. It will be within the memory of the Solicitor-General that long ago the Chinese Empire, which was represented here, took advantage of their immunities to imprison Sun Yat Sen, and he was very nearly deported and executed. We cannot stop that happening under ordinary circumstances, but we ought to be very careful in connection, particularly, with the Polish Government here. We have

had a lot of people who are not Polish citizens and who are not members of the Polish Army imprisoned. We do not want that to occur again. We do not want to turn the grant of immunities into a right of having a private prison here in London. I have no doubt that that point has been looked into and will be borne in mind, but it would be detrimental to our principles in this country if through this Bill we provided opportunities for police action which are not strictly in accordance with our own practices.

Mr. Mander: I am fully in sympathy with the object of this Bill. It seems to me only proper and right that our Allies who are in this country—temporarily and we hope not for long, before they are restored to their own countries—should be surrounded with every atmosphere of dignity that we can possibly give them, and diplomatic immunity is certainly one of them. I think we are at times rather too much inclined to say that we are fighting this war alone. Naturally, that is not a remark that goes down well with the splendid Allies who are rendering us very great services under most difficult circumstances, and this is one of the occasions which enable us to emphasise the point that we are not alone, that we have some very good friends, and are going to give them the recognition to which they are entitled in this country.
There is one point upon which I want to be clear. My right hon. Friend mentioned the names of various countries that come under the Bill. I want to be clear about the position of another Ally, Abyssinia. A statement was recently made that the Emperor Haile Selassie has returned to his dominions. The Bill speaks of "Governments established in the United Kingdom." I do not know whether that means that the Governments must be situated here. That is not the case in regard to the Abyssinian Government, who, I take it, are now in their own country. I want to be clear whether under this Bill or under the existing law full recognition can be given, to our gallant Ally at any time it may be demanded and thought appropriate, to that Ally who after some very troublous years and painful history looks like coming into its own again. It is possible that in the future, as events develop, there may be set up some kind of provisional Government in


Albania such as does not exist at the present time. I should like to ask whether in the event of that taking place it will be possible for them to have recognition. Those are the points on which I should like to have assurances from the Solicitor-General, and I would ask him to explain the position.

Mr. Garro Jones: Before the right hon. and learned Gentleman replies, I would like to put a further point. Some years ago I had occasion to raise a Debate on this subject, and it gave rise to some very interesting discussion and information. I raised it on the question of civil liabilities incurred by a person entitled to diplomatic privileges, after he had committed an act of negligence in driving a motor-car.
While everybody will agree with the main purpose of the Bill, we still leave in an atmosphere of doubt and uncertainty what are diplomatic immunities, privileges and customs. While this may or may not be the appropriate time to go into that matter, some consideration ought to be given to it, because it gives rise to a very great deal of feeling if persons entitled to diplomatic immunity rely upon that immunity to escape their ordinary civil obligations. This has been done in the past. Therefore, I hope that the Foreign Office will make an attempt, as soon as the appropriate occasion offers, to give us a definite statement as to what are the customs in diplomatic immunity.

The Solicitor-General (Sir William Jowitt): We certainly cannot complain of the reception which the Bill has had. Obviously it is designed as a matter of courtesy to the people whom we desire to shelter and because we recognise the very real help we are getting from them. It shows how fortunate we feel ourselves in having them as our Allies during this war. As the hon. Member opposite stated, it is wrong to think that we are fighting the war alone. The House has been, as ever, critical, and rightly so, of the proposal that is put before it, and I propose briefly to reply to the observations that have been made in the course of the Debate.
We have been reminded by the right hon. Gentleman opposite of the history of the Chinese Legation over here. He will perhaps know that since that incident took place corresponding incidents have

taken place in various foreign countries. The law relating to diplomatic immunity has been considerably clarified by those events. I should say now, without hesitation, that, by international law, not merely the municipal law but the law which is recognised as prevailing throughout all civilised countries, immunity which is now extended to a diplomat does not entitle that diplomat to retain or imprison at his will any person whatever, whether a national of the country to which he is accredited or a national of his own country. I think that is now plainly established and stated as having been established by all the world-recognised books on international law. I therefore feel no hesitation in giving to the right hon. Gentleman the assurance for which he asked.
I was asked about Abyssinia's position. A statement was made by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs not long ago regarding the exact position which we have adopted in regard to Abyssinia. We all recognise the splendid work which the Abyssinian patriots are now doing. The Abyssinian Government are established in Abyssinia, of course, and not over here. I hope that they will very shortly be established at Addis Ababa. Consequently the whole question of the Abyssinian Government does not some within the scope of the Bill. At the same time, it is open to our Government, following well-known principles of ordinary international law, to recognise any Government and to accord to that Government full status, both de facto and de jure, but that does not come within the scope of the Bill, which is designed merely to deal with the Governments which are established in this country.
With regard to civil liability, nothing has impressed me more than the fact that this question so seldom arises. It is a commonplace that people are very apt to regard debts of honour, that is to say, debts which are not payable in law, as the type of debt which they always make a point of paying first. When I have investigated the estates of bankrupts, as I sometimes have to do, I have found that they have almost always dissipated their assets to some extent, in the first place, in paying those debts of honour which are not legally binding. It is undoubtedly a fact, so far as civil debts which are owed by diplomats here or the


civil liabilities under which they come are concerned, that they have been almost always discharged without difficulty. If difficulty ever arises, it can always be taken up by the Foreign Office with the head of the Commission over here, and the difficulty is almost always got rid of.
Of course, diplomatic status and diplomatic immunity, which, it must be remembered, is the immunity of the envoy himself—the retinue merely have a derivative immunity—are absolute, so long as the person concerned is on the list. In the Bill, we have adopted the very convenient course of proposing that the list shall be published in the three "Gazettes." That means that everybody will be certain and clear as to who is and who is not entitled to the immunity. After these observations, I hope that the House will now give us our Second Reading. If any further points arise, they can be considered in the Committee stage.

Question, "That the Bill be now read a Second time," put, and agreed to.

Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House for the next Sitting Day.— [Mr. Munro.]

Orders of the Day — AIR-RAID PRECAUTIONS (POSTPONEMENT OF FINANCIAL INVESTIGATION) BILL.

Order for Second Reading read.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison): I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
This is a small Measure, which deals with the financial review that was expected to take place between the Government and the local authorities, as to expenditure on Civil Defence. Section 10 of the Air-Raid Precautions Act, 1937, provides that the Secretary of State, whose functions have since been transferred in this respect to the Minister of Home Security should,
before the expiration of a period of three years from the passing of this Act"—
which was on 22nd December, 1937—
in consultation with such associations of local authorities as appear to him to be concerned and with any local authority with whom consultation appears to him to be desirable, cause an investigation to be made into the working of the financial provisions of this Act

with particular reference to the expense failing to be born by local rates.
A report of the result of the investigation has, under the Section, to be laid before Parliament. It was genuinely intended by my predecessor, now the Lord President of the Council, that that financial review should take place, and, for all I knew, I should have been leading the local authorities in those financial negotiations. But when the time arrived the "Blitz" occurred, with the result that it would have been inconvenient both to the local authorities and to the State that that full financial review should take place. I met the local authorities and discussed with them a number of points which they wished to raise apart from the big financial review, and certain of those discussions are still proceeding. The local authorities agreed with me that it would be impracticable to comply with the terms of Section 10 and that as soon as possible we should go on with that financial review, but that in the meantime I should ask Parliament to be good enough to postpone the operation of that Section. Consequently, this Bill provides that the financial investigation, which will involve the collection of a good deal of detail, should be further postponed. We expect to complete that investigation within the next 12 months, and indeed, it is hoped to proceed with it as opportunity occurs. We would like to get it completed well before that period if it is possible but it must depend upon the physical conditions under which we are all working. The Bill is agreed to by the local authorities, and I am sure that it will commend itself to the general feeling of the House.

Mr. Garro Jones: No one wishes to detain my right hon. Friend from securing the Second Reading of this small Measure, but I wish to make one general comment. I am a little concerned at the shortness of the view taken by those responsible for deciding on the period for which the Bill shall be in operation. For example, we had the War Damage Bill, which gives cover only until the end of August; we had the Prolongation of Parliament Bill, which gives a small extension; and now we have this Bill, which gives an extension for only one year, an extension long enough to enable my right hon. Friend to say that he expects to get the financial investigations completed. Nobody can foretell the diffi-


culties which will fall upon us during the next 12 months, and I hope that in applying their minds to the term for which these Bills shall be extended, my right hon.Friend and any other Ministers who will be concerned will take into consideration the fact that perhaps a longer period would save the House of Commons much trouble during the next 12 months or two years. I do not think it would be going too far to suggest a period of two years. However, if my right hon. Friend is satisfied with one year, I know that the House will be content.

Question, "That the Bill be now read a Second time," put, and agreed to.

Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House, for the next Sitting Day.— [Mr. Munro.]

Orders of the Day — EMERGENCY POWERS (DEFENCE) ACT, 1939.

Resolved,
That the Resolutions of the House [18th February] approving the Cold Storage (Control

of Undertakings) (Charges) Order, 1941, and the Cold Storage (Control of Undertakings) (Charges) Amendment Order, 1941, be rescinded."—[Captain Waterhouse.]

Orders of the Day — SUNDAY ENTERTAINMENTS ACT, 1932.

Resolved,
That the Orders made by the Secretary of State under the Sunday Entertainments Act, 1932, for extending Section one of the Act to the undermentioned areas, namely:
the Borough of Beccles;
the Urban District of Hitchin; and
the Urban District of Newton Abbot
copies were presented to this House on 11th February, be approved."—[Mr. H. Morrison.]

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

ADJOURNMENT.

Resolved, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. Munro.]